English speaking room

JennyAtl писал(а):

are you 100% sure they own it, or just bought it for credit?

Surely it’s to their credit. They are too young to earn £400,000-500,000 (it’s the estimate of the house, I believe) for 5 or 6 years – the time they are together as a family. But Clair in spite of her gentle manners is a person who sees things as they are, and she won’t build a castle on the sand. They are sure of their stability - that’s why they got a loan and bought a house.
And about the grass that seems greener on the other bank of the river … Zhenya, I can’t but smile reading it. You forgot about my age! I am too old to see any bank of the river through rose-coloured glasses. And it’s the fifth year I have been living here, so there was enough time to see different sides of life.

JennyAtl писал(а):

That is interesting that nobody here knows what "pedagogic" is

The same in England! More over – nobody knows what “philologist” means. According to my Russian qualification I am a philologist, but I stopped to mention about it when completed different forms because nobody understood it.

Моментик писал(а):

But how to say, if you know that those ( "report" / blow the whistle on) actions are totally unfair/ unnecessary and wrong?

Моментик писал(а):

For me, настучали have negative character

The Russian verb “настучать” does not belong to the formal language. May be the verb “to squeal” is good in this sense as it just has the meaning “доносить-настучать”, but it’s for informal speech too. (For example: “He got used to squeal on his neighbours to the authorities” – Он привык стучать властям на своих соседей.) “To inform” and “to report” are more neutral to my mind and they are more suitable for formal speech or in the situation when you would like to show your tolerance. There is a” squealer” (informal) - доносчик-стукач formed from “squeal”.

elenayork писал(а):

Surely it’s to their credit

that's not fun . Usually mortgage equals to 3 annual incomes: let's say the house value is 450K. Then their annual family income is around 150K, or 75K per person (roughly). 75K sounds too much for a teacher.

One more bad thing about credits: they need to be returned And no one guarantees stability: people loose jobs, people die and divorce - anything happens
Moreover, if the house or any real estate was bought within last 5-7 years, it is likely to be overpriced, the prices we just inflated tremendously. This is how it looks: a couple bought a house 6 years ago for 200K, but now the house can be sold only for 150K, and they still owe 50K and they hardly paid back any of the principal as first years cover bank interest. so they are in japerdy.

elenayork писал(а):

“To inform” and “to report” are more neutral to my mind and they are more suitable for formal speech or in the situation when you would like to show your tolerance. There is a” squealer” (informal) - доносчик-стукач formed from “squeal”.

Local people see nothing wrong with reporting bad thing. Russian people just do not like to see it reported (just claiming"it is not your business" excuse )

elenayork писал(а):

The Russian verb “настучать” does not belong to the formal language. May be the verb “to squeal” is good in this sense as it just has the meaning “доносить-настучать”, but it’s for informal speech too.

That's fantastic - exactly what I meant.

JennyAtl писал(а):

Local people see nothing wrong with reporting bad thing.

They also don't see anything bad about reporting everything.
We found it very interesting. I think Russian bad mentality about squealing came from 30th and Gullah. Jenny, I understand that reporting the bad things maybe not bad at all/ I don't like when people "report" everything what they think is wrong - even when it's only their opinion and don't confront you before/just use the situation like leverage for their interests.

Ol, would you come up to a stranger saying that you do not like something in his or her lify style, attitude, anything?
I had to change my attitude to this "telling" process: do in Rome as Romans do.
Even formy child at school I always teach if anything happens, any problem, any pinch what so ever - talk to the teacher first. Otherwise the kid might be in big trouble.

JennyAtl писал(а):

Ol, would you come up to a stranger saying that you do not like something in his or her lify style, attitude, anything?

no, no - not to the stranger but to a co-worker - yes.

JennyAtl писал(а):

I had to change my attitude to this "telling" process: do in Rome as Romans do.

correct. but I have the right not to like it.

JennyAtl писал(а):

Otherwise the kid might be in big trouble.

true.
I think we are talking about a little bit different aspects of this situation.

Моментик писал(а):

not to the stranger but to a co-worker - yes.

and what is the difference in btw co-worker and stranger? In most business (and school) environment they do not encourage friendship. Friendship means ups and downs + emotions, but they would like to keep it hassle free.

Моментик писал(а):

but I have the right not to like it.

that is tru. i do not like many local things (like let's say med. referals) - but i have to follow the rules

Моментик писал(а):

I think we are talking about a little bit different aspects of this situation.

i would say kind of the same: since early childhood they promote no arguments btw "same level people": just direct to the proper authority. this is their mentality.

JennyAtl писал(а):

and what is the difference in btw co-worker and stranger?

stranger - the person who you don't' know completely somebody from the street. Co-worker - the person you meet on the everyday basis. I think it is a huge difference.

JennyAtl писал(а):

in most business (and school) environment they do not encourage friendship. Friendship means ups and downs + emotions, but they would like to keep it hassle free.

I am not sure that. I have all my friends from my work. My husband, too.

JennyAtl писал(а):

since early childhood they promote no arguments btw "same level people": just direct to the proper authority. this is their mentality.

unfortunately. However, of course every situation is different.
I think we had been on this subject to long. It is probably too boring to other members of our group.

Моментик писал(а):

I think we had been on this subject to long

JennyAtl писал(а):

Even formy child at school I always teach if anything happens, any problem, any pinch what so ever - talk to the teacher first. Otherwise the kid might be in big trouble.

It's great! Too bad that not so many teachers care about their students' emotions. An experienced teacher knows that very oten children aren't able to control themselves. At the same time they are afraid of sharing their problems with grown-ups since they scare being punished or mocked at.
I think we had been on this subject to long. It is probably too boring to other members of our group.Momentic says.
Nothing of the kind. All problems dealing with people's behaviour are worth discussing. It's but natural to have different opnions when it comes to the problem mentioned above.

Hello, my dear friends! I am sorry, I have no time to read you and to write a lot. We are fine. I am runing round like a squirrel in a cage school, kindergarten, swimming-pool (for my sons) and, of course, the most part of my time takes my baby-girl. Hope you enjoy good health!

NatalyS писал(а):

mocked at

There is a huge problem of bulling in schools. A couple of years ago one middle-school boy committed a suicide because of that... too sad...

.

JennyAtl писал(а):

There is a huge problem of bulling in schools. A couple of years ago one middle-school boy committed a suicide because of that... too sad...

"Bruce Foxley was doing his last year and I became his own particular, personal slave. I was his cook and maid and errand-boy, and it was my duty to see that he never lifted a finger for himself unless absolutely necessary. In no society that I know of in the world is a servant imposed upon to the extent that we wretched little fags were imposed at school. In frosty and snowy weather I even had to sit on the seat of the lavatory every morning after breakfast to warm it before Foxley came along. ........he would beat me with his heavy cane on the back while galloping forward from the far end of the changing room." Galloping Foxley by Roald Dahl

Nataly, that is sooooo sad...
and child can be so cruel too...one of the best examples is "Booby" (Chuchelo), still i can't read or watch this story without crying...
I also keep crying when i listen a sound track from a cartoon "A Mom for a baby-mamonth"...

Моментик писал(а):

exactly what I meant

Great!

JennyAtl писал(а):

75K sounds too much for a teacher

I don’t know the details and couldn’t ask about it, you understand. But as I said they are not people ready to take a risk, they are financially secured so they don’t need to worry.

JennyAtl писал(а):

Local people see nothing wrong with reporting bad thing.

If it were only bad things! They will report it in any case and do not see anything reprehensible in it. Good citizens!
Динка и Ко
Nadya,
Nice to hear from you again! Join our discussions when you have time! Wishing you and yours all the best!

elenayork писал(а):

They will report it in any case

yep, just to be on the safe side, that is true

elenayork, thanks a lot! I am trying to come in as often as I can. I see you are discussing very sad subject
My elder son is a pupil of the second form and I always worry about him and his relations with his classmates. I want my son to be kind with everybody and to tell me everything he is anxious about.

Динка и Ко писал(а):

pupil of the second form

that is very interesting that here they don't use the word "pupil" but "student" instead: even for pre-k. And the same about 'form", they use grade instead.

Динка и Ко писал(а):

his relations with his classmates

Nadzhda, can i ask you what makes you worry about it?

JennyAtl писал(а):

the same about 'form", they use grade instead.

Sorry, as for American English it's correct, but in Standard British, which is mainly taught in Russia, the word form is more appropiate.

NatalyS писал(а):

the word form is more appropiate

None of my British friends here (I have several) use the word "form" for either I asked specifically this question, as I also was taught "pupil" and "form'.
I guess let's wait till Elena shares her opinion from the UK side
And about universities and colleges: they do not say 1-course student, but first year student or even freshman, 2-year student or sophomore. They do not use the word "faculty" , but tend to the word "school" instead.

JennyAtl писал(а):

And about universities and colleges: they do not say 1-course student, but first year student or even freshman, 2-year student or sophomo

Fully agree. As for your friends, they do live in America so it's but natural for them to use words Americans use.
What about the word form, being a teacher of English, not a native speaker I confide in dictionaries more than in people speaking English. You know that even in various parts of the country one and the same thing can be named differently.
This is what the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English says: "form is a class in a British school, and in some American schools. Form and grade are synonyms though in the USA the second one is preferable. May be that's why the New American Webster Handy College Dictionary (I brought it from the USA too) gives the following definition: some of the devisions of a school course; also, the pupils in any of these devisions. You are quite right to say that the word form isn't used in this context in American English. At least there's none in the dictionary mentioned above.Upon my word I don't mean to teach anyone who doesn't need it. I'm interested in everything dealing with the language. So thank you for the information.

JennyAtl писал(а):

Elena shares her opinion from the UK side

Zhenya, thanks for your interesting question!
I decided to ask my husband (our grandson is living in another town, so I can’t ask him right now) and then to make my own enquires.
The results are: my husband said that in England we say “pupil” and “form” when it concerns primary and secondary schools. Then I opened the site of Arlington Church of England Primary School in Leeds (where I worked for a month last autumn) and studied it as well the sites of Warwick Road Junior Infant and Nursery School in Batley, Batley Grammar School (founded in 1612) and St John Fisher Catholic High School (where our grandson studied for 2 years). And after studying all these sites I can say that in primary schools the word “pupil” is used only, in grammar and high schools – either “student” or “pupil”. But there is a formal language on the sites. In everyday English – mainly it is “pupil” in regard to secondary schools as well.
The word “faculty” is often used in connection with British Universities. For example on the home page of University in Leeds there is a sign “Faculties listings” where all the faculties are listed. But on the site of University in London the word “Course” is used. In the University of Cambridge they use “Schools, Faculties and Departments”. It was more difficult to find in Oxford, but I did. In “Divisions” on their home page (the University of Oxford, I mean) there are:
Classics, Faculty of
Drawing and Fine Art, Ruskin School of
History of Art Department
Music Faculty of
etc.

So it is possible to find everything! It is a language changing permanently as our life does, you know! About “form” I will write a bit later, it’s interesting as well.

Elena, thanks for the useful info!

JennyAtl писал(а):

None of my British friends here (I have several) use the word "form" for either I asked specifically this question, as I also was taught "pupil" and "form'.

I live in the States for 7 years and I have never heard the word "pupil"

KTUS писал(а):

I live in the States for 7 years and I have never heard the word "pupil"

It's great that you have been living in the USA for so many years. You are sure to know everything about the language

And some words about “form” with my short introduction.
I remember when I came to the UK and met my stepdaughter and grandson for the first time I asked Kyle in what form he was in. He didn’t understand my question though I repeated it again. So I used the word “grade” instead – and he understood. But after having lived here for 4 years I know now that neither “form” nor “grade” are used in modern educational system of the UK. The word “year” is used in this sense. I wouldn’t like to make an unsubstantiated statement that’s why there is a reference to the governmental site. Sorry can’t give you the full link to open it at once as it won’t work this way. That’s why it will be step by step www.direct.gov.uk > Parents > Schools, learning and development > Understanding the National Curriculum
Then through yandex.ru I used an access to Oxford and Cambridge Dictionaries and what I have found:
Oxford Dictionary – “year” (one of the meanings) – “a set of students grouped together as being of roughly similar ages, mostly entering a school or college in the same academic year: most of the girls in my year were leaving at the end of the term”.
Cambridge Dictionary – “UK a group of students who start school, college, university or a course together
Kathy was in the year above me at college”.
And today I have seen my grandson and we discussed it as well. The word “form” is usually used now only in regard to “the 6th form”. Looking for information on internet I saw the 6th form on the sites of some high schools in England. The 6th form is in grammar schools, high Catholic schools and etc. but not in ordinary secondary schools as it an additional compulsory year for preparation to enter colleges and universities.
Zhenya, I am grateful to you for your question as it prompted me to find interesting information and learn about the things around me (I used the right words but automatically).